[Introductory music]
Isabel Byon: 0:00
The New York State Office of Addiction Services and Supports, or OASAS, provides this podcast as a public service. Thoughts and opinions expressed do not necessarily represent or reflect those of the agency or state. This is Addiction: The Next Step.
Jerry Gretzinger: 0:22
Hello there everybody. Jerry Gretzinger here, your host for Addiction: The Next Step and you know it's brought to you by the New York State Office of Addiction Services and Supports. We like to take an opportunity, certainly whenever we can, to talk about people who've had a journey from substance use to recovery and living in recovery. As I know they've said very many times, recovery isn't a destination, it's a journey, right, it's a journey that continues on and on, and so it's important that we know what that journey entails for people, because we know others will start that journey and it's helpful to hear what other people have gone through and how they've been able to maintain their recovery.
Jerry Gretzinger: 0:59
And we're joined today by two folks who are happy to share their story and we're thrilled that they are, we by two folks who are happy to share their story, and we're thrilled that they are. We've got Danial Jordan and we've got Charles Lloyd Charles, who also happens to be a program director for a recovery outreach center. We'll get more into that coming up a little bit. But, gentlemen, thank you both for joining us this afternoon. You're welcome, thank you, very nice to have you both. So, anial, I'm going to start with you and I think what we want to do is I want to hear a little bit about you know, just like that real-life experience, right? What was the substance use story that you had? Where did you come from, how did you get to a point of you know wanting to go through treatment and get yourself to recovery, and how does that maintain itself? So let's start with the very beginning. Take us back to the substance use issues that you were living with.
Danial Jordan: 1:48
I started my path to recovery at the early age of seven years old, was labeled with ADHD and put on a drug called Ritalin. By the age of 11 or 12, I was already doing drugs and drinking alcohol. At this time in life I have been through a lot, from sexual abuse to physical torture, and I masked the pain by getting high. Later in life I seen many doctors and they all gave me different diagnoses. They said I was someone who suffered from bipolar and schizoaffective disorders. That was put on drugs that I didn't want to take because they made me get fat and the side effects were bad, so I never took the meds. Early on in life I did some really bad drugs that really harmed my mind. I used them to escape from reality, but they only made things worse and a life a whole lot harder. I wish that I had never done drugs before, but it made me the person I am today. My dark past made room for my bright future to shine through.
Danial Jordan: 2:53
The worst day of my life was the day I hurt my good friend. I cannot take it back. The damage is done, but I've been hospitalized across the state for 13 years now and I take my medicine regularly and I know it's something I need for life. I don't get high. My life is better every day that I'm on this planet. I now have a good support network of family and friends, counselors and doctors, which was able to find the best medication that works best for me. I'm now going into the community seven days a week, monday through Saturday. I attend AA as well as other support groups that help me maintain my independence. One day at a time.
Danial Jordan: 3:40
I can tell you this my king has given me another shot at having a good life, with a clean slate and a fresh new start. I'm taking it and running with it. All I can say to someone who is out there hurting if you like the meds or not, just take them anyways. It's for your own good. All things get better in time. One thing that I've learned never judge a book by its cover or another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. No matter how bad things may be, there's always good that can come out of it. If you look for the good in things, you will find it. Life is a journey. Pray, hope and don't worry. This is my story, Danial Jordan.
Jerry Gretzinger: 4:21
Danial, I appreciate that you shared a lot of important information there. You definitely gave us an insight into your story and where it began and the journey that you've taken from there. Yeah, so, yeah, I wanted to just jump in because I think what you gave us was a really good overview of your life, your experiences with substance use and getting into recovery. But I know I could tell you were reading from something, which is great. I know a lot of people have comfort in preparing something they want to read, but I just, I want to just tap into your memory for a minute.
Jerry Gretzinger: 4:53
So at what point? Because you know you talked about starting with Ritalin so early in life, at seven years old, and then from there you started replacing it with other substances and it became such a difficult thing to manage for you. You talked about hurting a friend and that that was sort of your lowest point. And I'm wondering, however specific you're looking to get. I don't know what happened with the friend you said that was the lowest point. Was that the point at which you said I need to do something about this? Or was there another thing that pushed you in the direction of saying today, something has to change?
Danial Jordan: 5:31
Well, I'm sure I had multiple things in my life to say that this is where I need to change. That's what brought me to my knees. I don't know what else to say. That was probably the worst thing that ever could have happened to me in my life. It turned around to be. A lot of good came out of it. I hate to say that, but it's just the way it is, you know.
Jerry Gretzinger: 5:56
Well, that's what you try to do. You have a horrible situation. You try to make something good come out of it. We talked to so many people who have loved ones who passed because of substance use and they try to do things in their memory to at least have something positive come out of it. I get the sense you probably don't want to talk about too many specifics with this friend, but let me just ask. You say you hurt them, was it? You hurt them emotionally, physically? I just want to paint a little bit more of a picture for people so that they understand.
Danial Jordan: 6:19
I hurt my friend physically. I hurt him.
Jerry Gretzinger: 6:25
Understood, and so that happened in the wake of that. That was when you had that moment of this has to end.
Danial Jordan: 6:35
Yeah, yeah, yes, sir.
Jerry Gretzinger: 6:36
So talk to me, too, about how that journey then started. You got to that point. What did you do to get that treatment started so you could get on the path of recovery?
Danial Jordan: 6:49
Well, I was hospitalized and, um, I've been in institutions for a very long time. Um, that's how I got on my path to recovery. Now I'm currently I'm 14 years sober, no drinks, drugs, alcohol, no, no, anything like that in 14 years, so
Jerry Gretzinger: 7:10
Wow.
Jerry Gretzinger: 7:13
Congratulations on that, by the way. That's great.
Danial Jordan: 7:15
Thank you, I have a.
Danial Jordan: 7:17
I have a song I want to share about my recovery and stuff,
Jerry Gretzinger: 7:22
a song you said I know that's something that I heard about you that what you do is you take some of your energy and you put it towards music writing correct.
Danial Jordan: 7:30
Yes, sir. Yeah, music was my outlet to get out of myself and become connected and in touch with my creator. That gave me these lyrics and these songs to put together and I think it's phenomenal that I was able to come up with 190 songs. When I was in Rochester Psychiatric Center for five years, I wrote 190 songs and I think that's amazing. Like I said, you know, what I had done was horrible, but I hate to say, so many good things came out of it.
Danial Jordan: 8:07
Sobriety for 14 years. You can't buy that kind of. You know I go to AA six days a week, every morning by 730,. I'm out the door back home by 9. I go a mile down the road and back to AA every single morning, six days a week, down the road, and back to AA every single morning, six days a week. I mean you take a person that's addicted to crack, rock, cocaine and you know marijuana and other substances and stuff, living a not a good way to live and doing everything the right way and things keep falling into my lap because of that. I don't know what else to say. You know, if you put God first, you know everything else tumbles along down with that. You know, and all I can say is this everything the enemy stole from me, my God, my creator, gave it back to me, and that is amazing.
Jerry Gretzinger: 8:58
Danial, just for people who are out there who may be on a path of treatment right now and wondering if they'll make it to recovery just before we move on to Charles, just tell them is every day still an effort. It doesn't get easy. It might get easier, but I'm assuming it's like a daily. You know a part of your daily routine to be able to stay in recovery. Like you said, you know how many years you've been sober, so you count, because every day is an accomplishment.
Danial Jordan: 9:30
Right? Well, here's the only thing that I can say about that, my friend, is that every single person on this earth has to have two things happen to them in their life good things and bad things. How you deal with it, you know what I mean. Now there's this old indian. There's this old indian chief and the young cubs from the tribe went to the chief and he said, chief, there's two wolves warring against each other in my mind, the black and the white, the good and the evil. How do I know which one's going to win? And the chief said to the young cub whichever, whichever wolf you feed the most.
Danial Jordan: 10:11
So if you feed yourself with good things and positive things and strong and healthy things, you'll have that kind of foundation built that you know, when the storm comes, your, your, your, your vessel, your, your building, your, your place, where you are, is going to be strong. If you have a strong foundation, you won't be knocked over, like they said. The man that built this house, I understand. The winds came, the floods came and his house went away. Well, the same thing, with sobriety, if you have a strong foundation, believe in God, ask God to help you every single day and just take it one day.
Danial Jordan: 10:47
They always say, take it one day at a time, but it is taking one day at a time. All you have control of is right here, right now, and that's it. And you know, if you do your best in everything you do, then all you got to do is show up and just be there and try to be, you know, a beacon of light to anybody that you know can't see in the dark. You need a light so they can see where they're going. You know you don't want to trip over your feet when you're walking.
Jerry Gretzinger: 11:11
That's good advice, Danial. I appreciate you sharing that with us.
Jerry Gretzinger: 11:13
And uh and again how many years you've gotten hopefully that many more and more than that to come.
Jerry Gretzinger: 11:22
So I want to switch over to. I want to switch over to Charles. Now, Charles, Um, I know I mentioned before that you're a program director and it's with the Recovery Community Outreach Center in Buffalo, correct,
Charles Lloyd: 11:29
Correct?
Jerry Gretzinger: 11:31
So before we get into how you're helping people along with their journey, let's talk about yours, like where your journey began, you know, with substance use, then getting into assisting others with it.
Charles Lloyd: 11:48
Well, I was an everything addict. If you had it, I was using it, no matter what it was, as long as it helped me as, as Dan says, not feel the pain of life. Um, I got into recovery. And what brought me to recovery? You know, you asked the question what brought you to your knees?
Charles Lloyd: 12:12
One day, November 16th 1999, I was working, I had just got out of rehab. I wasn't. I was in that controlled drinking, that controlled using mode that some addicts go through, and I called my wife and I said to my wife you know what? I got some money saved up. We're going to go to a hotel and we're going to have a discussion about the rest of our future. And she said we didn't have anything to celebrate. We were talking about celebrating our anniversary. And, excuse me, she said we didn't have anything to celebrate and that, when she said that, I said you know what, god, I don't want to feel like I've done anything wrong anymore. So I made a conscious choice Either I was going to go to jail or I was going to go back into recovery for a long, for good, you know, and um, on my spiritual journey, I guess it was God who said I got something else for you. I've been clean and sober since 20, since 1999, November 17th, 23 years. One day at a time, yeah.
Jerry Gretzinger: 13:31
How do I do? Just like you said, one day at a time.
Charles Lloyd: 13:35
You only get one day at a time. Life ain't going to stop happening. But now I have to deal with the realities of who I am as an individual person.
Jerry Gretzinger: 13:46
Now you said that you had a choice.
Jerry Gretzinger: 13:48
I'm sorry, before you get too far from it. I know you had said that you made a choice of either moving forward with treatment and recovery or, you said, going back to jail again had you been in and out of the criminal justice system.
Charles Lloyd: 14:01
Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. You know that was that choice of desperation. You know either go back into rehab for a long period of time or go to jail. So I got some substances and I took a walk from I took about a two and a half mile walk to rehab. While I was doing it I was doing drugs and drinking along the way, the reason why I said I know my God had a different plan for me, because I didn't see not one police officer on that journey and I made sure if I was stopped by the police I would have had enough on me. I had enough on me to go to jail for. So I get to the rehab and I, I, I dispose of everything the rehab and I dispose of everything the drink and the drugs and I ended up in recovery From there.
Charles Lloyd: 14:56
When I got out of the rehab, I was in. I think it was about a year after I got out of the rehab I was in. I ended up working for that rehab as an advisor, as a housing advisor for a men's. I got my GED because I wanted a job working with people with disabilities and at that time that was the only employer that asked me for a high school diploma, so I had to go get one.
Jerry Gretzinger: 15:24
Good for you for doing this.
Charles Lloyd: 15:26
Yeah, being sober and clear-headed, I was able to pass that test and move on.
Jerry Gretzinger: 15:31
All right, now I'm going to jump in here really quick because I'm hearing how both you and Danial talked about how you had that point and you decided I'm going to make a change. And then you went and you got your GED. When you talk about it in hindsight, it makes it sound like I just made this decision and boom, I was on the right path and it was all good. And I know you're both saying take it one day at a time. But I want to speak to some of the people out there who may be on that journey and aren't at the point where they're counting the years that they've been in recovery yet, and it is a struggle. I want them to hear a little bit of how challenging that may have been on one occasion or another to stay on that path.
Jerry Gretzinger: 16:20
What could you tell them?
Charles Lloyd: 16:23
Well, it's going to be challenging because you've got to deal with life on life terms. You're no longer suppressing your feelings through drugs and alcohol. Like I said earlier, life is going to happen.
Charles Lloyd: 16:31
So what do you do when someone makes you angry? What are you doing when you're feeling symptomatic from your diagnosis, from your mental health? When you're feeling angry, anxious, depressed, do you return back? And when you know what alcohol and drugs is going to do to you back? And when you know what alcohol and drugs are going to do to you, do you take that role or do you learn skills to help you get through day to day life, because it's not going to stop. That's the reality. That's the one thing that you realize when you stop using drugs and alcohol and you get that clarity life hasn't stopped happening. You're going to run into those situations that, as they say in the drugs and alcohol, and you get that clarity life hasn't stopped happening. You're going to run into those situations that, as they say in the big book about Alcoholics Anonymous, you're going to run into those situations that used to baffle you, but you're going to learn how to get through them, and it takes practice and you get one day at a time to practice.
Jerry Gretzinger: 17:31
Charles, let me ask you now again. We sometimes like to speak directly to people. If there are people I know you work out in the Buffalo area who are hearing this and say, okay, I'm ready to talk to somebody, I'm touched by what I'm hearing today. I want to start my journey to treatment and recovery. What could they expect if they reach out, if they want to get involved in a program?
Charles Lloyd: 17:54
That decision or you come to the realization that you have and you told yourself you've got a problem. Then you have to make that decision of getting help for that problem and understanding that you don't know how to because you've been doing something so long you may have heard oh, all you got to do is put the drug down. That is not the case. It's read. It's adjusting your thinking, attitudes and behavior to get to a place where you are able to do something different. You know, I know I had to start working with others to help me get outside of myself.
Charles Lloyd: 18:39
Here at the Recovery Community Outreach Center, we are a peer-ran program. What that means is we are people with lived experience giving support to people who come through our doors looking for someone to listen, someone who understands them. We are empathic people who care. What we do here is we fall along the lines of three E's. We empower, we educate and we engage. Because sometimes people come through our doors and all they want is someone to listen to them. I empower my team to ask the question what happened to bring you here, because you don't get that much in the setting of what happened to bring you here. Especially in clinical settings, everybody wants to tell you why you're there. So here at the Recovery Community Outreach Center, I was given the opportunity and a privilege to start working once I got my general education diploma. I need to also tell you that I'm also the recipient of two college degrees.
Jerry Gretzinger: 20:06
That's great.
Charles Lloyd: 20:07
How that happened is because I made a decision. I wanted it to happen. How that happened is because I wasn't um doing things that keep me from thriving. I wasn't doing alcohol. I wasn't doing the drug. I stayed on top of my mental health treatment. That afforded me the opportunity to think clear and do things accordingly.
Jerry Gretzinger: 20:35
And Charles, I love what you said a moment ago about how helping people through recovery has done as many positive things for you as it aims to do for them.
Charles Lloyd: 20:46
Yes, mutual aid, support groups that we can go to, aa, na, sos, smart, all those we can do all that. One thing we try to help people understand is it's okay to be.
Jerry Gretzinger: 21:01
Charles, I appreciate that. I think the information, the advice that you're giving for people is terrific and I certainly hope that people out there are hearing it and I love what. Again, what both of you said is that you've got today. Focus on today. Life is not going to stop, the world's not going to stop turning, but focus on today, make the decision to make a change. And you've got people like the two of you who will be out there to support and share stories and, like you said, resources. The two of you will be out there to support and share stories and, like you said, resources. You are both in people's toolkits to help them through this journey because of the stories that you're sharing. So we really appreciate you doing that.
Jerry Gretzinger: 21:37
I want to mention again the Recovery Community Outreach Center in Buffalo. That's where you'll find Charles, Danial, thank you, and of course, we want to make sure we're giving out the OASAS information. If you want to go to our website, it's oasas. ny. gov, O-A-S-A-S. Dot N-Y, dot, g-o-v all the resources you can look for there. You can also call our HOPE line 877-8-HOPE-N-Y. A lot of people with a lot of good they can do to help people when they're looking for information or looking to get started on that treatment and recovery journey. Gentlemen, thank you again for joining us today, and we'll have to have you back sometime again to share more information and more of your stories. Thanks so much, and I'm Jerry Gretzinger, your host Addiction: the Next Step brought to you by the New York State Office of Addiction Services and Supports. Until we talk next time, be well.